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daddio
Dodge Dakota
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10/29/2009
12:54:27
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Cash for Clunkers cost $24,000 per car
Edmunds.com says only 125,000 vehicle sales were a result of the government's program.
Posted by Elizabeth Strott on Thursday, October 29, 2009 10:54 AM
The U.S. government is calling its Cash for Clunkers program a big success, with nearly 690,000 vehicles sold in July and August. But a report by automotive Web site Edmunds.com says the program actually cost taxpayers $24,000 per car sold.
Only 125,000, or 18%, of the sales were incremental, according to Edmunds.com -- the remaining 82% of sales would have happened regardless of the program.
The $24,000 is the price for the sales of vehicles that were a direct result of the program, Edmunds.com said.
The clunkers program gave car buyers rebates of up to $4,500 if they traded in less-fuel-efficient vehicles for new vehicles that met certain fuel-economy requirements. The government set aside $3 billion for those rebates.
Edmunds.com looked at the sales trend for luxury vehicles and other models not included in program, and it applied the historic sales volumes of those vehicles and those in the program and estimated what the sales figures would have been without the program. The analysts then divided the $3 billion by their 125,000-vehicle number to get an average of $24,000 per vehicle.
The average transaction price for a new vehicle in August was only $26,915, minus an average cash rebate of $1,667.
"This analysis is valuable for two reasons," Edmunds.com CEO Jeremy Anwyl said in a press release. "First, it can form the basis for a complete assessment of the program's impact and costs. Second -- and more important -- it can help us to understand the true state of auto sales and the economy. For example, October sales are up, but without Cash for Clunkers, sales would have been even better. This suggests that the industry's recovery is gaining momentum."
The government was not pleased with Edmunds.com's analysis.
"It is unfortunate that Edmunds.com has had nothing but negative things to say about a wildly successful program that sold nearly 250,000 cars in its first four days alone," Bill Adams, spokesman for the Department of Transportation, told CNNMoney.com. "There can be no doubt that (the clunkers program) drummed up more business for car dealers at a time when they needed help the most."
The economy grew at a 3.5% pace in the third quarter, thanks to a jump in auto sales as a result of the clunkers program. Auto sales contributed 1.7 percentage points to the GDP, the government said in a report this morning.
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STS
Dodge Dakota
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10/29/2009
13:45:35
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The best of Govt providing the best intrest for it's people.
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Bucket
GenII
10/29/2009
14:03:25
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Daddio you put my blood pressure through the roof ! Once again another example that the government simply cannot run anything at all, and even that is an understatement. Idiots, top to bottom......wait !!! i got an idea, lets put them in charge of our healthcare....WOW, no thanks.
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daddio
Dodge Dakota
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10/29/2009
14:31:16
| RE: talk about a clunker
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I should have pu in a disclaimer on that post. It was just a copy and paste guys. Do some research and observe the facts. I personally haven't had time to investigate this any further.
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Kowalski
GenIII
10/29/2009
14:36:23
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It's a better example of why we need to stop to think before we believe every thing we read. The logic in coming up with a cost of $24,000 per vehicle is twisted. If the government paid up to $4500 per vehicle, that's what the cost is - not $24,000.
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daddio
Dodge Dakota
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10/29/2009
15:08:25
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"If the government paid up to $4500 per vehicle, that's what the cost is - not $24,000."
Not necessarily. There could be other costs we don't see. I do find it hard to believe that it would be $24k but. I'd like to know if this was handled by the government with the present staff or were there new hires to handle the program. If there were any new hires, that's added cost right there.
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Bucket
GenII
10/29/2009
17:28:45
| RE: talk about a clunker
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Even if it was only a thousand dollars, its not the gov's business to even be buying cars in the first place, what a stupid idea that one was. Almost as stupid as trying to bribe the taliban with a billion or so. Lets just throw money at everybody and everything its all paid for by our grandkids anyway right?
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Kowalski
GenIII
10/30/2009
08:51:12
| RE: talk about a clunker
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daddio - That's not what the article you posted is talking about though. It's some convoluted crap about luxury cars that they used to come up with a big number ; most likely designed to cause an inflammatory response from those being duped. Which is exactly what it did with you guys.
Bucket - Actually it is the governments business to buy cars. That's how they get the fleets for the FBI, CIA, etc. But this program wasn't about the government buying cars; it was about providing an incentive for citizens to buy cars to stimulate the economy. That said, I agree with you that the program was a waste of tax dollars.
But I think we should be able to agree on that without these very distorted numbers being beieved without question. All too often, people are using and believing distorted and just plain wrong information without stopping to question it simply because it supports what they want to believe.
This makes me wonder where the so called republican fiscal conservatives were when the Bush administartions gave out billions in tax breaks for the rich that the country could not afford. That was a much bigger waste of taxpayer dollars. Fiscal conservatism is not a flag that should be only trotted out when the Democrats are in power.
Lead, follow, or get out of the way
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Bucket
GenII
10/30/2009
10:48:08
| RE: talk about a clunker
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The Democrats version of "rich" and the republicans version are quite different, have you ever gotten hired for a job by a poor person? Cutting taxes is always good, then ol Tiger Woods decides now he can afford that 300 foot yacht so the yacht company hires 435 new workers at an average of 48k per year for the next three years to build Tigers yacht, and all 435 employees are now getting taxed on their income for the next three years. Just because a modest midsized company does two million in sales this year doesnt make the owner rich, he might end up taking home 75k with 25k of that taken out as tax then he's labeled in some minds as being rich, Obama started off saying rich was 250k per year and two months later had changed the number 5 differnt times in his speeches then Biden calls rich 150K so i dont trust a flip flopper. Lets make things equal and tax everybody at say a fixed %17 even if you make 15 k per year at Mc Donalds, or go with a user tax but dont allow a politician to determine who's rich and who's not then try to take the rich down while propping up the poor, thats socialism.We are not all equal.As far as the clunkers program goes...naturally the gov is going to call it a success, the tru numbers might never come to light, but we all agree it was a bad idea.Lets face it we got a one term senator running our country who's never had to balance a budget outside of his own and we are gonna be in big, big trouble, spending trillions to this kook is nothing.What a disaster
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Kowalski
GenIII
10/31/2009
08:53:25
| RE: talk about a clunker
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Bucket - where were you when the Bush kooks were spending trillions that they didn't have; why no complaints from you about that ? That's a big part of the deficit that Obama has been saddled with.
Cutting taxes is not always good. If all taxes were cut down to nothing, there would be no government - no roads, no military, no public schools, etc. Not good at all. Progessive tax rates are more fair than fixed. It's not a bad idea that those who benefit the most from society should bear more of the load. If your fixed tax rate of 17% were applied to everyone, we'd be in even more of a mess.
All we need to look at to see how flawed the Edmunds data is, is that nearly 250,000 cars were sold in the first four days alone. That exposes Edmund's claim of only 125,000 cars sold attributable to the program as bogus.
Lead, follow, or get out of the way
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Bro
Dodge Dakota
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11/01/2009
19:21:55
| RE: talk about a clunker
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Kowalski...nigga please! Send the bro back to the ghetto where he belongs! Redistribute the wealth my a$$, he is giving it all to his nigga buddies. This is all about an empowerment trip for the bro. As I said, nigga please!
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wow
Dodge Dakota
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11/02/2009
11:55:21
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Wow ski-you are such a dem lap dog! Edmunds said that only 125,000 cars were sold as a direct result of the program. All the rest were going to be bought then or in the next quarter without the program. The goverment only accelarated the sales- NOW- there will be a BIG slump in sales for at least the next six months. This is going to cause another round of layoffs at the car companys... To keep his numbers up-obama will spend MORE money he does not have!!! You DEMS say bush pushed the def. up by 1.5 billion in eight years(DEM NUMBERS!). The goverment says Obama spent 1.4 billion in 80 days....You dems have been in control of both houses of congree sense jan 2007-dems controled the purse strings... Your dem leaders put together both spending bills!!! Soft bush gave in to you DEMS...and obama has ran away with the whole bank!!!! And YOU back them up...You are a very sad person.
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wow
Dodge Dakota
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11/02/2009
12:00:20
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last post- should have been 1.4 trillion.
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Kowalski
GenIII
11/02/2009
13:04:37
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Looks like more stupidity from "wow". I've already told him I'm not a Democrat; looks like the the typical Republican BS of name calling and repeating lies until people believe it. I've pointed out problems with the Democrats as well; I'm not a blind follower of any party unlike some here. The truly sad people are those who can't think for themselves. The Edmunds data is seriously flawed. The other data from "wow" is flawed as well - "DEMS say bush pushed the def. up by 1.5 billion in eight years" ? Figures I've seen put the Bush's unpaid for war debts at around three trillion once the long term care for injured veterans is included. Not 1.5 billion as "wow" claims. And that tally doesn't even include the huge loss in tax revenues that came from tax breaks for the rich. From what I see here, it looks like the Republican party is the party of rascists, name callers, and liars. Now that is sad.
Lead, follow, or get out of the way
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Again
Dodge Dakota
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11/02/2009
15:18:28
| RE: talk about a clunker
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Ski can always be counted on to carry th latest lib talking points. For the past week, libs have been barking to cons about not talking out about bush-we did. Ski has repeatedly voiced lib dems talking points about the healthbill. We have been correct constantly, but ski will not fase it. The sad thing is, he appears to believe his own lies. Sad, very sad. The newly released bill from the house-contants the wording that makes the public option the only option after 2013. It is in the bill! Nancy lied to us-again. Ski lies to himself. READ the BILL-ski..you are way out in left field.
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nancy
Dodge Dakota
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11/02/2009
15:39:01
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In jan. 07 the mighty nancy P. and harry reid took control of both houses of congress. If you remember your goverments studys-they control the spending in washington(remember how the dems cut off the money for the nam war?).Within one year, Nancy and harry had us into the beginning of the recesstion. Did they cut spending? No. Did they tell Barney franks to control Freddy mack and fanny may? No. Did they write the TARP bill? YES! Did bush sign it? To his damnntion yes. Does Ski spew lib dem talking points? Always...And ski, READ THE health BILL. we are telling the true whether you want to see it or not.
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Bro
Dodge Dakota
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11/02/2009
22:07:22
| RE: talk about a clunker
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Nigga please.
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Kowalski
GenIII
11/03/2009
06:35:52
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For "Again" - more lies from you ? You have not been right constatanly about health care as you claim. For example, you jokers trotted out the lie about death panels. I called you on that, and correctly pointed out that the insurance companies are rationing health care already. While death panels never did exist in any form of the health care bill, they do exist in the Republican led state of Texas. The Texas Futile Care Law allows a committee appointed by a hospital corporation to overrule families and pull the plug on granny if the hospital deems any more care to be "futile". It was signed into law - by guess who ? - your hero, then governor George W. Bush. So the real death panels belong to the Republicans. Read all the health care info; not just what is convenient to twist to fit your position. Try to understand what it says instead of looking for ways to twist it. Takes a lot of hutzbah to blame others for what the Republicans do; not all of us will fall for that.
Lead, follow, or get out of the way
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Bro
Dodge Dakota
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11/03/2009
10:05:50
| RE: talk about a clunker
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Death panels already exist. They are white juries killing my nigga kin. You crackers are always trying to keep us niggas down...you will be paying for our health care, while you crackers die from no health care. This is going to be a nigga country and you crackers are going to have to accept it. You can live in the slums and ghettos, while we take everything from you like you did us niggas. Pick your own fing cotton cracker, this nigga is empowered.
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again
Dodge Dakota
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11/03/2009
11:26:08
| RE: talk about a clunker
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Again you trot out your dem talking points. Both the house bills contain the creation of boards of review that a doctor must take a case through before he is allowed to work on the patient. They will evaluate the cost-age- investment return to society. Thats a death panel! Obamas own advisers want them and THEY ARE IN THE BILL! For you to continue to deny the truth means that you are ether mentaly ill or just an dem bot. We ask you about nancy and barney and you attack bush(dem attack pattern). We show you that obama has marxist, commys, and maoist, on his staff and you deny it. You have spent way too much time in the peoples republic of Mass. Its useless to get you to open your closed mind. They,ve gotten to you. Sad-very sad.
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Joe.C
Dodge Dakota
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11/03/2009
13:14:17
|  RE: talk about a clunker
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Hey Gerrick Doherty (Kowalski) where have you been?? Say, did your 3rd cousin Shannen give you some money for a new Dakota to replace your old beat up snow pushing truck?
Now that’s a better example for "cash for clunkers" lol.
"Bush kooks"
Well the "Bush kooks" are out of the White House for ever. Now we got the "Obama kooks" that has actually proposed a 3rd stimulus check. Wow talk about spending your way out of debt! It's John Maynard Keynes all over again.
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