| From | Message |
12GA.Dak
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/24/2002
21:37:21
|
 Subject: RE: gun control
IP: Logged
Message:
Jeezus GUNMAN, do your friends call you Lefty now?! I imagine THAT had to leave a mark. The shop I was at had five or six fine looking Garands available at between $800 - $900.
andrew, you're breaking my heart here. Yes, it was a Ruger Mini-14. Damn. I thought my decision was made. No, I've never been a fan of bolt-actions. My dad had one that I never got use to and I guess I've gotten use to my 12GA. Remington. So damn quick and reliable. Well, I've read some very good things about the Bushmaster Varminter rifle - and Hawkeye speaks highly of Bushmaster - but then I'm looking at $800 - $900. Ouch!
|
GUNMAN
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/24/2002
21:43:50
| RE: gun control
IP: Logged
Message:
No, my LIBERAL friends think I am a freak, a relic of 1950's paranoia, a recluse that belongs in a museum.
Not that I really care what they think.
I'd check out those Garands for that price if they are in good shape! My pops did time with Uncle Sams Misguided Childern, (USMC) 2 tours in nam and a rousing experience with a Garand in San Diego. He always wanted one, but never did get one.
His Marlin Glenfield .22 is a real tackdriver, even with his fake knee, one heart attack, glasses, mild case of gout, he can still dust my sorry a$$ at the ripe old age of 59 shooting quarters at 100 yards with his marlin. I never, never never never could begin to shoot like him with that darn old .22
Yet, in clays, I regularly eat his lunch. Ya, I know apples and oranges, but we have fun anyway.
BTW his marlin is bolt action, he would not have it any other way!
|
TigerDak
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/24/2002
21:46:05
| RE: gun control
IP: Logged
Message:
A little side-note for you guys...
I saw a report that said Britney Spears was supposed to have a dinner date with England's Prince Harry. She got stood up! He decided to go fox hunting instead!!!! LMAO!!!!
|
Chris W
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/24/2002
21:55:34
| RE: gun control
IP: Logged
Message:
Did you check out the Armalites?
andrew, The Ruger is a fairly accurate little 223.
My father has one and we took armadillos in South Alabama at medium ranges -150yrds- on a regular basis. It's no tack driver by any means, but I think it would be a fine multi purpose rifle with a good reputation for dependability. Basically a 10-22 on steroids.
12Ga.Dak I think if you get a good quality scope on a Ranch rifle you should be able to hit pretty good with it. just remember you cant reach out to far with the 223 cause the little round starts to lose energy.
Gunman, I used to work in a gunstore and was showing a customer a paraordnance P-14 and being all proffesional, and saying you need to be careful with single action pistols, and SLAM! dropped the slide on the web of my left hand between slide and breech. OUCH!, embarassing too!
|
12GA.Dak
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/24/2002
22:00:36
| RE: gun control
IP: Logged
Message:
GUNMAN, your dad sounds like a true American to me. We can all thank him for his service. God, Guns, and Guts indeed.
Yeah, those Garands I looked at today were all nice and clean - a few with chips in the stock, but all looking real fine. I can't see myself spending an entire day hunting with one, though. Just a bit too much for me. If I had the extra $ I would scoop one up just to take out a few times a year, but it would never see much more action than that. What are your thoughts about the mini 14? I'm no marksman but I want to be able to hit what I'm aiming at - especially if its a 60lb dog that thinks I'm a wounded bunny!
|
12GA.Dak
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/24/2002
22:09:52
| RE: gun control
IP: Logged
Message:
Chris W, what would you say the accurate range of the .223 is? I do most of my coyote hunting at night and they're in fairly close(when we're having a lucky night calling them in!)by the time we spot 'em.
|
andrew
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/24/2002
22:29:30
| RE: gun control
IP: Logged
Message:
Thats what I mean. I am used to heavu barreled varmint rifles in .22-250 making one ragged hole at 100yards and a very small group at 200. I bet they(mini 14) would be fun to shoot and serve the purpose of a ranch rifle perfectly, but I thought you meant a serious predator rifle.
If you do get the ruger and handload, there are .22 caliber Trophy Bonded Bear Claws and maybe Partitions available which would work nicely as a close range(100-150yards) deer rifle.
Most guys who hunt yotes all the time and like a semi-auto go with some modded version of the AR-15.
|
Chris W
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/24/2002
22:40:01
| RE: gun control
IP: Logged
Message:
For what you described I'm even more convinced a good semiauto 223 is what you need. at night fairly close in, you might have to get off multiple quick shots,
The effective range of the 223. varies with barrel length, type of rifle, ammo, etc. and my HBAR has iron sights you can set out to 800 yrds, but I wouldnt expect a 223 to have much left at that range. I'd probably say keep it under 3 or 400 yrds and with a good load you should be fine.
Whenever I go to Alabama I take my SKS with me when I go prowling through the brush exploring and looking for signs of deer.-not hunt deer, just look for signs.- because of the wild boar problem. tough, cheap, dependable, little brush gun, that just doesnt quit. bagged a few pigs, one of which was almost on me! in times like that you are REALLY glad you have a semiauto!
|
andrew
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/25/2002
00:44:24
| RE: gun control
IP: Logged
Message:
In a situation like that I would prefer a semi auto in 45/70 or even a semi-auto 12ga with slugs. Then again, if I was in a bush with a pissed off pig, ANY rifle would be appreciated.
|
Chris W
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/25/2002
05:56:15
| RE: gun control
IP: Logged
Message:
Yeah, but those are too expensive,
The SKS is the perfect little POS brushgun. You got the ballistics of a 30-30, short, squat , so can hip shoot the ba$tard if you have to, spare parts are cheap-for now- 10 rnds as fast as you want 'em, CHEAP ammo, target shoot all day, and last but not least, If you run out of ammo, It's 7lbs of wood and steel, so turn it around and start swinging! :-}
12GA.DAk, I'm not recommending An SKS for any type of accurate hunting rifle. Its just a good drag through the mud get 'em off you gun !
|
Hawkeye
*GenIII*
1/25/2002
09:11:13
| RE: gun control
IP: Logged
Message:
Lets just say that with my EXTREMELY worn M16 in the Army, I could do 300 meter head shots with the iron sights. AR's sights are set for meters not yards, just fyi. :-) A meter is slightly longer than a yard. At 800 meters a .223 still has plenty of energy. Not what is has at say 300 but still more than enough to do the job. I would not want to be hit by one that was shot at me from 800 meters away. Mini 14s are decent rifles, but, as the one I had was, they are not on the same level of accuracy as an AR. Barrel's are a bit to thin.
Urban Warrior
|
SteveM
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/26/2002
05:17:22
| RE: gun control
IP: Logged
Message:
As hawkeye said, with a AR you have a fair chance of a kill at 800m once you get used to it and get it broken in.
Be safe
SteveM
2000 4.7 4x4slt
|
CThomp
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/26/2002
15:03:03
| RE: gun control
IP: Logged
Message:
As a brush gun the SKS is decently accurate though. Especially here in Florida where pretty much everything is brush and you'll never be taking aim at anything over 100 meters aways. I've had alot of fun with mine. I'm thinking about scoping it next just for fun. I already put a poly stock, a muzzle-break and new front sights on it.
|
Chris W
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/26/2002
16:53:25
| RE: gun control
IP: Logged
Message:
No one wants to get shot at ANY range,and weve all heard the stories of a stray rd killing someone a mile away, but since were getting picky about things, there is a diff between the range of the 223, and the EFFECTIVE range of the 223.
I dont know a bout you, but during grass week, we engaged targets out to 600 METERS. Most law enforcement sniper schools teach you to hit with the 223 at 300 and under.
The 223 is a good rd, but it relies on velocity to do its damage. The US military tried to get around this and get longer range hitting power by adopting the NATO std SS-109rd which they shoot out of A-2's with a 1in7 barrel. Unfortunatly now there having overpenetration probs especially the tungsten tipped rds fired out the M-249 SAW, which is loaded every 5th rd with a tracer.
The 1 in 9 barrel wont spin the 109 enough to accuratly stabilize it. Now you can hit prarie dogs, rabbits, and small varmint out to 800 yrds with a heavybarrel, scoped, rested rifle with no problem. You can still get power down range out of a 223 if fired out of the SAW due to heavier, longer barrel, or heavy barel AR with the right ammo. These problems are one reason why the military still retains the M-60 on a squad level. Because the 223 M-249 doesnt have the range or power of the 308 MG. So now it's common to see a rifle squad with both guns and the poor sucker who gets to hump the "pig"
Oh, if you can score heads at 300 out of a worn mil-spec AR with 55g ball, then my hats off to you.
|
12GA.Dak
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/26/2002
17:13:03
| RE: gun control
IP: Logged
Message:
Hey, I just got back from the gun show in Albany. Lots of great rifles, shotguns and pistols but I walked away empty-handed. I feel like I need some more information before I buy. Chris W, what do you think about the 7.62 x 39mm cartridge? I checked out a Ruger Mini Thirty at the show and am wondering if this rifle would fit the bill for coyotes/short-range whitetail hunting?
|
andrew
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/26/2002
18:13:12
| RE: gun control
IP: Logged
Message:
12ga,
Have you looked into the Browning BAR's? They are awsome auto-loaders chambered in one of the best coyote/deer rounds.........the .243win. they may be a bit pricey and heavy but you get what you pay for.
|
GUNMAN
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/26/2002
19:11:27
| RE: gun control
IP: Logged
Message:
Ruger has out a double 20 GA
YEAH!
Finally after all these years, an american double.
Can't wait to see one.
|
Chris W
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/27/2002
09:53:15
| RE: gun control
IP: Logged
Message:
Hmm, 7.62x39 would be good for coyote, and I do know some folks who hunt Whitetail with it, But my personal opinion is that it MAY be a little undrepowered for Deer. I've heard the round is ballistically similar to a 30.30. Winchester. I feel it walks the line of adequate and not enough. also the round is not noted for accuracy. Now the Mini Thirty would be a great bush gun, along the same lines as an SKS.
The 223 is ballisticaly superior to the 762x39.
The good think about the round is that its CHEAP to buy ammo. so regardless of what you get for youre coyote problem, I'd still look into picking up a rifle in that caliber just to targetshoot with, and use as a basic beat around rifle. Kind of like what I use my SKS for. You can still find some cheap SKS around if you look.
If you have the bucks, then andrew is correct about the Browning. Though they are pricey. The 243 is a good round, still somewhat close to 223 though. My favorite all round Deer round is still the 308. For White tail I personally would not use less than a 270.
If youre talking close range, you might even consider a carbine chambered in 44 mag or heavier. wouldn't be my first choice, but its something else to consider. I know of a guy who swears by 44mag on wild boar.
Good luck with youre decision.I know its tough picking one gun, Thats why I have so many! :-}
|
12GA.Dak
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/27/2002
09:56:46
| RE: gun control
IP: Logged
Message:
andrew, I saw a Browning "Safari" .243win at the gun show - new in the box. great looking gun and we all know what a fine product Browning puts out. They wanted $790 firm for it ... did I miss out on a deal? It didn't seem much heavier than the mini 14 - maybe a lb or so?
GUNMAN, my brother has a Savage 12 GA side-by-side thats served him well for 30yrs now - nothing fancy but it gets the job done.
|
12GA.Dak
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/27/2002
11:58:58
| RE: gun control
IP: Logged
Message:
Chris W, thanks for the info. Yeah, I'm think I'm going to end up getting two rifles now. A rifle for coyotes first, then save up some $$$ for the whitetail rifle.
One of the vendors at the show had a table full of SKS rifles - all for around $100. I looked at them, took a pass, changed my mind and returned to the table 20 minutes later, and they were all gone! Talk about kicking myself in the a$$. Funny thing about the show, over 450 exhibitors and not an AR in the house. I really wanted to check some out to see if I would feel comfortable hunting with one. I guess I'll go pester some more gunshop owners today.
|
Chris W
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/27/2002
13:36:07
| RE: gun control
IP: Logged
Message:
DAM!! SKS for 100$? thats the cheapest they've been in years. Did you see how much the bricks of ammo were? Cheap shootin fun!!
Just to be nosy and start another "discussion" what do ya'll tote for a carry gun? I'm looking to retire my Glock 17. Any ideas?
|
GUNMAN
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/27/2002
14:38:46
| RE: gun control
IP: Logged
Message:
My insurance carrier is S&W and ME! I use their .357 policy, no premiums, no deductible, and no forms to fill out.
Always on call, never complains, its always there man. I recommend you use 125 gr JHP sitting on top of some W231 for best useage in filing a "claim".
"I don't dial 911, I dial .357!"
|
Hawkeye
*GenIII*
1/27/2002
15:39:32
|  RE: gun control
IP: Logged
Message:
Sigs, H&K's, Glocks, AR's, and a couple of shotguns.
I carry everything I own. Rotate them around. Glocks are all my wife's. She carries them.
1 in 9 will stabilize up to a 70 gr load. Does the 62 gr SS109 fine for me. 800 meters is considered to be the effective range of .223 by the military. Vary rarely would you ever net to use it at that range though. Most people dont realize just how far 800 meters is. I really prefer M198 over SS109 because A.) at longer ranges the 109 looses velocity faster since it is a heavier bullet, and B.) 55 gr 198 does better out of carbine length barrels (which most of mine are) than the 109.
Alot of it is personal preference though.
Urban Warrior
|
Dr Q
DakotaEnthusiast
1/27/2002
15:46:55
| RE: gun control
IP: Logged
Message:
300 meters Hawk! Shoot in the Marine were were hittin' um at 500!
Good to see you back bud.
Q
Dr.Q
'01 Patriot Blue SLT RC 4.7 5sp 3.92 pegleg
0-60 @ 6.20sec.
1/4mi @ 14.75@97.1
Home Brew Airbox
K&N Drop In
Lakewood Traction Bars
Dremel TB Port and Polish
|
Hawkeye
*GenIII*
1/27/2002
15:57:55
| RE: gun control
IP: Logged
Message:
Yes but you you werent shooting at green human shaped targets that were down a lane with trees on both sides and bushes in between that popped up from behind a dirt mound and only stayed up for about 2 seconds and at the same time had one pop up at 150 meters that only stayed up for 1.5 seconds and you had to hit both. Targets were spaced every 50 meters from 50 to 300 meters. Sometimes only 1 would pop up, sometimes 2. Never knew which ones would be up or when. Spent part of your time trying to determine if you have 1 or 2 targets up and which ones. :-) Best friend was in the Marines same time I was in the Army so yes I am pretty familiar with their quals. Was starting to wonder where you were hiding at Doc..
Urban Warrior
|
Dr Q
DakotaEnthusiast
1/27/2002
16:18:27
| RE: gun control
IP: Logged
Message:
...excuses..excuses. HAHA!
After all the Bob hoopla been keepin low key.
Q
(USMC-Rifle Expert)
Dr.Q
'01 Patriot Blue SLT RC 4.7 5sp 3.92 pegleg
0-60 @ 6.20sec.
1/4mi @ 14.75@97.1
Home Brew Airbox
K&N Drop In
Lakewood Traction Bars
Dremel TB Port and Polish
|
12 GA.Dak
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/27/2002
21:08:49
| RE: gun control
IP: Logged
Message:
Thanks, Chris W. I feel much better now.
No, I didn't check out the bricks of ammo. I imagine knowing that now would be truely depressing. On a side note, I stopped by a gunshop today and checked out a Kalishnekov AK47 Hunter - it was in excellent condition - asking price of $429. I was trying to compare it to the Ruger Mini 30 and was told that the Kalishnekov was a far superior rifle. Pluses being its ability to take any 762 x 39 round you care to feed it and superior accuracy.
|
Chris W
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/27/2002
21:39:56
| RE: gun control
IP: Logged
Message:
I'm not familiar with the AK-47 "hunter" but if it's anything like the AK-47 assault rifle, Then accuracy wouldn't be it's strong point. It would be pretty hard to improve on the Ruger. It is, afterall a rechambered mini-14 which is a highly regarded little rifle. And quite accurate. [especially with a scope]/ plus tons of dress up and after market parts for it. Not to mention Ruger has a great reputation for stout firearms and good customer service. OK, I digress.
Anyway, I'm gonna have to check out this Kalashnikov hunter thing. I haven't really been keeping up with whats new in gun land for about two years-got married, kids,etc.
As far as eating any type of 7.62x39 ammo? well, to be honest, theres not that many types out there. Other than the bulk paper ammo, there's only a few that I've seen for hunting. [hollow
point]. There are more manufacturers than types.-unless somethings come out lately that would be a little harder to feed. The store I worked in, only stocked 3 brands of 7.62x39 if that tells you anything. Most AK buyers will have either the ball/military ammo, or the Imported hollowpoint.
How are the prices out there for the ruger mini14 and mini 30? have you checked shotgun news? You can find some great deals on new and used guns in there.
Always glad to help 12Ga.Dak. Good luck on youre continuing hunt for the right rifle. :-]
Oh, and Hawkeye, you are right on the 800meter effective range for the military. Dont know why I thought it was 600. Brain fart!!
|
Chris W
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/27/2002
22:00:52
| RE: gun control
IP: Logged
Message:
Dont feel depressed. just try to catch another gun show ASAP. they will probably have some more. If it makes you feel better I payed 125$ for my SKS.
Don't know about where youre at, but here in the metro Atlanta area there's a gunshow about every month or so.
I'd rather have a new Ruger than a used Kalashnikov. even though they are tough, they dont have the quality of the Ruger. Theres NO WAY I'd pay 429$ for an AK of any type. Especially used.
I just sold my Egyptian Maadi. [their version of the AKM, which is basicaly an AK47 with a stamped lower reciever] for 350$ so I could get a video camera to tape the kids. I didnt really need the rifle anyway, but what I'm trying to say is that the Maddi is one of the finest versions of the AK, and It was in excellent condition, with 7 mags and 400rds of ammo. so I think they are asking too much. Even for a Kalashnikov. Valmet also makes a kickass AK.
Believe it or not, but I actually like my SKS more than the AK.
Anyway, Its getting late, and I'm getting long winded here, so I'm stepping of the box for the night.
|
andrew
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/27/2002
22:25:06
| RE: gun control
IP: Logged
Message:
Not sure on the $750 thing for the BAR but it sounds ok, especially for the Safari grade. I paid around $550 for my Model 70 Featherweight for just the rifle alone. So other rounds that would make good combo coyote/deer gun would be:
.243win
.257roberts
.260rem
.25/06rem
.270win
7mm/08
Just remember, anything that will take a deer will handle a coyote, but not the other way around. So I am saying, its probably better to go a bit heavy than a bit light.
|
12GA.Dak
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/28/2002
13:14:28
| RE: gun control
IP: Logged
Message:
Thanks for the info, andrew. Its good to see that I have so many options. Chris W, the best prices I've seen on the Ruger Mini 14 and Mini 30 were $489 for the blued finish and $509 for the matte stainless steel finish for either rifle. Opinions on blued versus stainless steel finish?
|
Chris W
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/29/2002
07:45:00
| RE: gun control
IP: Logged
Message:
Geez, I have been away from the gun store for a while. Anyway, I personally prefer parkerised-hope thats spelled right-but most sporting arms come in a blued finish. which is fine as long as you keep it clean and take steps to keep it from rusting, especially after being out in the field with it. I've found that the quality of a blued finish is parralel to the overall quality of the gun, and the blue on the Ruger should be just fine.
If you want to go matte, you get some more resistance to contaminants and rust.
I've got a 20 year old Remington 1100 auto loader that I turkey hunt with and haven't had a problem with the blue.
You cant go wrong with either.
But the stainless guns do look nice dont they? ;-}
|
Chris W
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/29/2002
07:50:41
| RE: gun control
IP: Logged
Message:
andrew, I've never used anything less than a 270 to take deer. I really like the flat trajectory, and penetration to get through the muscle to reach the vital organs.
Have you used any of the smaller loads to take deer? and if so how did it work for you?
BTW, good price on youre Mod70, What scope do you have mounted?
|
12GA.Dak
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/29/2002
09:40:01
| RE: gun control
IP: Logged
Message:
Yeah, I know what you mean. The stainless looks great on the Mini. I've got a 28 year old blued Remington 12ga. auto-loader (model 48) that still looks great - bought it new when I was a teenager for $125! I use it for everything - including clays - and it has never failed me. But I am meticulous about keeping it clean and dry. No matter how tired I am after an outing, it gets taken care of as soon as I get home.
|
andrew
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/29/2002
12:08:07
| RE: gun control
IP: Logged
Message:
Chris w,
I havent taken any big game with the smaller cartriges but its a pretty popular round here in N.Ca for deer hunting. I personaly know of alot of deer that have fallen to the .243win and 100gr bullets. I decided on a Leupold Vari-XII 3x9x40 in matte black finish. Out the door I paid around $966 and some change. So far it prefers 130gr Federal Premiums with Sierra BTSP's. This was my first year hunting with it since its new so no deer/bear taken with this combo but I hope to use it on some coyotes this year.
|
Chris W
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/29/2002
18:32:38
| RE: gun control
IP: Logged
Message:
Sounds like a good combo to me. I'm not too familiar with the 243 so I didn't know they loaded as high as 130gr. That seems heavy, but the Sierra boat tail is a good round.
IMO, as long as you dont have two spend 2 hrs following a blood trail, and hit straight and true, it doesn't matter what you use. Most of the guys here in GA. that I know tend to go a little heavier. 308,and 7mm Mag are common here.
Anyway thanks for the info. and happy hunting!
12GaDak, I love the REM autoloading shotguns, sounds like youre 48 could tell a few stories;-}
Oh, and thanks, you reminded me that I have to clean my Glock!
|
Hawkeye
*GenIII*
1/29/2002
19:05:55
| RE: gun control
IP: Logged
Message:
.243 is a .308 necked down to a 6mm. Very efffective on Deer.
Urban Warrior
|
Chris W
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/29/2002
19:13:14
| RE: gun control
IP: Logged
Message:
Learn a little everyday huh?
|
andrew
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/29/2002
21:17:01
| RE: gun control
IP: Logged
Message:
I'm sorry, I meant I use 130gr. sierra's in my new .270win and used 100gr Partitions in the .243
Hawk, so is a 7mm/08 and possibly a 22-250. I mean they all share the same case.
So do the 30/06, .270win,.25/06 and .280rem
as do the 7mm rem mag and .300win mag
not to mention all the smaller weatherby mags too(i think)
|
andrew
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/29/2002
21:20:33
| RE: gun control
IP: Logged
Message:
Chris, if ya hit em' right the first time, there shouldnt be alot of trailing even in the thick stuff. your not using FMJ's are ya?
|
| | <<Previous Page P 5 Next Page>> |
|
